True Christianity was never meant to interfere with a man’s obedience to the civil power. So far from this being the case it ought to make him a quiet, loyal and faithful subject. He ought to regard the powers that be as “ordained of God,” and to submit to their rules and regulations so long as the law is enforced, though he may not thoroughly approve of them. If the law of the land and the law of God come in collision, no doubt his course is clear–he must obey God rather than man. Like the three children, though he serves a heathen king, he must not bow down to an idol. Like Daniel, though he submits to a tyrannical government, he must not give up praying in order to please the ruling powers.
~ J.C. Ryle
Expository Thoughts on the Gospels: Mark, [Carlisle, PA: Banner of Truth, 1985], 254. {Mark 12:13-17}
I love the writings of JC Ryle and have many of his works on my self but as a Covenanter I must part company with him on this subject. By taking Romans 13 out of context of the rest of scripture Ryle creates a dichotomy that scripture does not allow. I suppose that it is his Erastianism that is getting him into trouble. But what his quotes does is to call Evil Ordained Civil Ministers of God. Ryle does not understand the difference between the preceptive will of God vs. the providential will of God regarding Civil Magistracy. Paul is not talking about a de facto situation but a de jure situation in civil magistracy. By confusing them he opens the door to calling evil good and God responsible for having evil ministers under him. Are we really willing to say that Hitler was a ordained civil minister under God? Or any other illegitimate government just because they happen to be over a group of people? Or when legitimate governments violate capital offense laws of God, they are still civil minister of God? I do not believe so.. Civil governments are ordained of God and God has not left it up to man to set up civil government in any way he pleases. God has precepts in His scriptures on how to set up civil government just like He does for church government. To set up a government contrary to the precepts of God is to set up a illegitimate government which violates God laws and disqualifies that government in every possible term. As the Confessional Testimony of my denomination said back in 1761 said “On the whole, it must be a great abuse of Scripture, to wrest a divine precept, which directs subjects to submit to such punishments as their lawful ruler shall justly lay them under for their offenses, to the support of this antiscriptural notion, viz: that every wicked person, whom the majority of a nation advances to the supreme rule, is the minister of God, to whom obedience is due, under pain of eternal damnation, as is done with this text.” John Calvin said about obeying tyrants: “For earthly princes lay aside their power when they rise up as tyrants, and are unworthy to be reckoned among the number of mankind. It is more fitting that we should spit on their heads than that we should obey them.” Commentary on Daniel, Lecture XXX Daniel 6:22. We have many biblical examples of this through out God’s word: The town of Libnah in the scriptures. For it revolted from Jehoram the sixth successor of David that it might no longer be subject to him; the reason for that revolt is given in the context of the history, namely that King Jehoram had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers. And God speaks positive on this history. Jael slew her king’s general with a tent peg. Ehud slayed Eglon. And Many Many More. When God has laid down precepts then providence have no bearing and we must follow the precepts that God has laid down. He set up civil magistracy on Mount Sinai, established by Covenants, with qualifications laid down for the office of magistrate, then we have no right to call government what God does not call government nor do they have legitimate claim to our obedience, they must be dealt with the same way as any other violator of a capital offense would receive which is what happened to good ole King Charles I in 1649.
Read the whole paragraph to get a fuller understanding of what J.C.Ryle is talking about.
To add:
Mark 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.
And Caesar/Roman empire was a tyrant/tyrannical.
Micah, I read the whole paragraph and completely disagree.. I do not believe that Tyrants are legitimate governments that are to be obeyed. As the Magdeburg Confession of 1550, a joint confession between Reformed and Lutherans said “All those who aided and acted for this tyrant were themselves accomplices to his crime of tyranny, and they were all guilty before God. This included all lower magistrates who implemented his orders. It also included soldiers and allies who marched for the tyrant. … When a magistrate exceeds his authority he forfeits his office and becomes simply like any private person. If he uses force to implement his excessive authority, his victims and third parties may resist him passively or actively, just as if he were any other criminal thug.” Regarding Mark 12:17, Luke 20:25, etc, The Covenanter Confessional Testimony of 1761 states regarding “Rendering to Ceasar” the following, “A third scripture, perverted to support the above principle (obeying unlawful magistrates), is Luke 20:25: “Render therefore to Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s.” From this, Seceders imagine strongly to fortify their cause. But, from a just view of the text, it will appear, that the answer given by Christ contains no acknowledgment of Caesar’s title to tribute, or of his authority as lawful. It is beyond doubt, that the question was captious, and that the design of the Scribes and Pharisees, in proposing it to Christ, was to have him ensnared in his words. This they thought themselves sure or, whether he should answer positively or negatively. For if positively, and so recognize and acknowledge Caesar’s title, then they would have occasion to accuse him to the people, as an enemy to the laws, liberty and honor, of the Jewish nation. This is evident from ver. 26: “And they could not take hold of his words before the people.” And then, if he should deny that it was lawful, they would have an opportunity or pretense of delating and delivering him to the Roman governor, as an enemy to Caesar. They seem, however, to have been confident, that he who taught the way of God in truth, without regard to any, would never inculcate it as a duty for them to give tribute to Caesar, subjection to whom, as their lawful governor, for conscience sake, was contrary to the divine law given to the Jews, respecting their magistrates; and if so, they would not miss of sufficient accusation against him. But here infinite wisdom shone forth, in giving such an answer as declared their wisdom to be but folly, and at once disappointed all their malicious hopes; an answer which left Caesar’s claim unresolved, as to any positive determination whether it belonged to him or not. The question is in direct terms. Our Lord does not directly answer to the question, in the terms proposed by the wicked spies, he neither expressly says it is lawful or unlawful to pay it, but gave his answer in such terms as they could not from it form an accusation against him, either to the people or to the governor, he, in general, teaches to give Caesar all things that, by the law of God, were due to him; at the same time enjoining them that, under pretense of giving to men their demands, they rob not God of what was his due, namely, a conscientious regard to all the laws he had given them, and universal obedience to all his commands, without regard to persons of any station. And it is certain, that Caesar was a proud, aspiring, idolatrous and bloody usurper (like the king of Babylon,, Hab. 2: 5, for which causes the Lord denounces fearful wroth and judgments against him, Hab. 2:7-14), having no other right to the most part of his dominions, than the Lord’s providential disposal which sometimes makes “the tabernacles of robbers prosper; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly;” Job 12:6. “And for their sins gives Jacob to the spoil, and Israel to the robbers;” Isa. 42:24. “And giveth power to the beast, to continue forty and two months, and to have power over all nations;” Rev. 13:5,7. So that, by looking into the divine law, which determines everyone’s due, according to their just character, and of which they could not be ignorant, they might see that he had a just title to all that was due to an usurper, idolater and murderer. That the Jewish coin did bear Caesar’s image, could be no evidence of his being their lawful sovereign, seeing it is most common for the greatest usurpers and tyrants to stamp their image upon the coin of the nations they tyrannize over. And though it be granted that the Jews had, by this time, consented to Caesar’s usurpation, yet that could not legitimate his title, nor warrant their subjection to him for conscience sake, seeing they could not consent to his authority, but in express contradiction to the many plain and positive scripture precepts, given by God unto then, as has been seen above. It is, therefore, violence done to the text (as also opposite to the sentiments of some eminent divines on the place), to say that it contains a command to pay tribute to Caesar, and it would appear from Luke 23:2, that the Jews themselves did not understand it so. It may be further observed, that this is not the only instance where our Lord, in infinite wisdom, declined to give direct answers to the ensnaring questions of his malicious enemies. See John 8:8-12; Matth. 21:28-28; John 18:19-21, where are questions of similar nature, proposed with the same hellish intention, and all answered by him in like manner. In each of which, Seceders might, on as good ground as in the answer to the question anent tribute, say that Christ did shift and dissemble the truth, but the least insinuation of such a charge cannot be made from any of these answers, without the greatest blasphemy.”
I think David has conducted himself well and proper in his response and attitude towards King Saul.
Daniel is another good example.
Peter and the disciples, when they were bashed and threatened in Acts.
And Paul too, how many trials he went thru, and yet always giving thanks in whatever situations he was in, and sees it as an opportunity to preach the gospel, or a testimony to others.
I see the many martyrs willing to die for their faith and disagreeing with the tyrants.
“I will disagree, but will not raise my hand.”
Matthew 5:44-45 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
I think we agree that we do not approve of what the tyrant does, and will speak/argue against them. But what is more important, is to pray for them.
And submit accordingly, as unto the Lord.
Anything they require that is against the law of God, than i cannot submit, but only to God.
Even so, i shall not retaliate in violence, but submit that which is due, within the Lord.
True heavenly wisdom builds and does not seek to create strife.
Micah, Christ is NOT a giver of new laws. It would contradict Himself as God and it would destroy the possibility that Christ is a Redeemer. This is Orthodox Calvinism. Whatever Christ or His apostles said must be interpreted in light of the Words Christ gave on Mount Sinai (Since it was He who was the angel Yahovah). Matthew 5:44-45 is completely consistent with the Torah and Prophets (I refuse to use the unbiblical term Old Testament). The Torah and the Prophets taught the same, “Exodus xxiii. 4,5. If thou meet thine enemy’s ass or his ox going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. If thou see the ass of him that hath thee lying lying under his burden, and wouldst forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him. – Proverb xxiv. 17. Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth, less the Lord see it, and it displease Him. – Proverbs xxv. 21. If thine enemy hunder, give him bread to eat; if he be thirsty, give him water to drink. – Lev. Xix. 17,18. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart – thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. I am the Lord.”Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn thou not away.” This is the very language of Deuteronomy xv. 7,8,10. “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy” but it was false, the law said” Thou shalt love thy neighbor, Lev. Xix. 18” All of these passages are referring to our Personal enemies when we have been wronged. They do not correspond to the enemies of God such as when King David through the inspiration of the Spirit said by which we can say along with King David “Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?”Psalm 139:21. And the countless petitions for God to punish the wicked, all those that work against God. Such as Psalm 83 “Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God. For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. Do unto them as unto the Midianites; as to Sisera, as to Jabin, at the brook of Kison: Which perished at Endor: they became as dung for the earth. Make their nobles like Oreb, and like Zeeb: yea, all their princes as Zebah, and as Zalmunna: Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession. O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind. As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire; So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD. Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish: That men may know that thou, whose name alone is YAHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.”Like what was done to the Midianites and Jabin, God uses people as His instruments to carry out His will. As the Magdeburg Confession of 1550 said “Yes, “vengeance is mine,” says the Lord. But “we are his instruments” for good, and “God punishes in such a way that those who execute the punishment are not doing wrong but are carrying out God’s will and command.” You mentioned David, but the scripture teaches us that David and Jonathan resisted King Saul when he became tyrannical. Leaders of Zebulun and Naphtali defied Jabin, the Canaanite king. Elias, Jehu, and Naboth refused to obey King Ahab. Asa deposed his own tyrannical mother, Queen Maacah. Again, Many more examples can be given of overthrowing illegitimate governments. But something must be said regarding Daniel. The Covenanter Alexander Shields in his work titled “A Hind Let Loose”, said the following regarding the duties of Christians under national judgments such as Israel was when under King Darius. To acknowledge that God’s hand is lifted in judgment against them: Who gave Jacob to the spoil and Israel to the robbers? did not the Lord, he against whom we have sinned? (Is. 42.24), To humble themselves under the hand of God (2 Chron. 12.7-8), To accept the punishment (Lev. 26.40), To repent and forsake their sin and their rebellion against God, as held forth in Solomon’s prayer (1 King 8.46-48), To cry to the Lord for help and deliverance, To strive earnestly for the righteous rule and dominion of Christ over that nation, and the extirpation of antichrist, To bewail the abominations of their wicked rulers and to keep themselves separate from all their defilements, having no fellowship with works of unbelief and darkness, but rather reproving them, To pray for such rulers as enemies and persecutors, to pray for their restraint and conversion, as did Stephen (Act. 7.60), To own subjection to them only as to a judgment (Neh. 9.36-38) and not confederate with them in any of their perversity: Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the Lord (2 Chron. 19.2), To use all lawful means to be delivered from their violence and rapacity. Thus were the prophets hid in a cave from the malice of Jezebel; thus was Moses hid from Pharaoh (Heb. 11.23); thus did Christ withdraw himself out of the way of his enemies (John 8.59 etc); thus did Paul flee from Damascus; thus Joseph and Mary fled from Herod; and the wise men disobeyed his request and avoided him. Jael slew her king’s general with a tent peg; was she in rebellion? The Hebrew midwives lied directly to Pharaoh’s face about their activities. “We have another very clear example concerning the town of Libnah in the scriptures. For it revolted from Jehoram the sixth successor of David that it might no longer be subject to him; the reason for that revolt is given in the context of the history, namely that King Jehoram had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.” Israel was a Covenanted Nation that went awhoring… To be under Darius was punishment from God. That does not mean that Darius was a ordained Magistrate but that God used Darius to punish Israel for her disobedience. God uses the Wicked even for His Divine Plans. But that does not mean that Darius had Magisterial Authority by God. And until the people repented of their sins and raised a sufficient army to overthrow the unathorized magistrate then and only then are we to obey, they “having no Right but that which is at the Length of their Sword.” Testimony 1741. The Testimony of 1741 also said “WE find the Word of GOD speaks Woe to them that decree unrighteous Decrees, as well as to them that obey and walk willingly after the same [Tyrants, & their Decrees] [Isa. 10.1; Hos. 5.11]; and therefore we think Magistrates making bad Laws, are to be witnessed against, as well as Ministers or People who obey and follow the same [Tyrants, & their Decrees].” We can truly say with Yahovah in Hosea 8.4, “They have set up Kings, but not by me, they have made Princes, and I knew it not.” Therefore all such should be disowned by the LORD’s People, lest they get the same Rebuke, as Israel did when their captivity was near approaching upon them; tho’ they had long continued in that sinful Way of making Kings.
I think this is just a case of ‘Chicken and Duck’ talking. : ), as we Chinese say.
No point arguing. Spend more time preaching the gospel and defending against the real Enemy.
Sometime this kind of communication may not be the best, and may lead to unnecessary misunderstanding.
God bless.
[...] ~ J.C. Ryle [...]